Quick Note: Stephen Strasburg

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 18, 2008 9:11 PM PST in Pitching Mechanics Comment 18 comments

Stephen Strasburg is a 6'4" power pitcher hailing from San Diego State University. He features an upper-90's fastball that led him to an 8-3 record as a sophomore, pitching 97 innings and recording 133 strikeouts.

He is the favorite to be drafted first overall in the 2009 MLB amateur draft, and for good reason - he shined in the Olympics and his pure stuff is off the charts.

What's his delivery look like, though?

A few notes before I get into the analysis of his pitching mechanics:

That is very, very fast.
That Cuban hitter has a pretty good swing.

Arm Action: I don't like it. He starts his arm action with a pendulum swing, but has a bad "grab" as he tenses up his wrist and takes his elbow well beyond his acromial line in an attempt to "load" his scapula in a forced manner. He actually reminds me a lot of Mark Prior (gasp!). Take a look:

I tried to make it as synchronous as possible (reload your browser after both images are fully downloaded). Note the point at which both images pause - you can see maximum shoulder abduction in a similar spot with both pitchers. Very Bad.

Tempo: Strasburg is 21-22 frames from maximal leg lift into footplant. Average to Bad.

Ball Release: Pretty good. He points his pitching arm shoulder at the target and doesn't stop the forward flow of momentum. Good.

Followthrough: Though his ball release phase is good, this part of his delivery is truly Very Bad. His glove arm hangs lazily by his thigh and he has an abrupt arm jerk as he seems to be actively braking his arm during the deceleration phase.

Strasburg reminds me a lot of Mark Prior - a truly dominant right-handed college pitcher with troubling mechanics: Bad arm action combined with slow tempo. I predict a steady loss of velocity over the first few years of his career leading to him dropping his arm slot and then a major shoulder injury.

0 recs | Comment 18 comments | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Like Prior? Ouch...

Thanks for the update. Always interesting to read.

by VictorW on Nov 19, 2008 12:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I don't know if I would take him #1 overall if I were Washington

but I also don’t know if they can afford not to, management would be lambasted for this decision.

by BraveBronco0121 on Nov 19, 2008 8:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not so sure I would agree

Have to take figure in the body type of the two pitchers you compare. Prior is that tight muscle guy why Strasburg is long muscle (wiry). Prior was a guy that landed on his heel and cut himself off so he spun. Not the case with Strasburg.

Prior also gets his throwing elbow above the level of his shoulders in a position of Hyperabduction causing stress on both the Rotator Cuff and the Labrum. That is a big reason he has and continues to have shoulder issues.

I like Strasburgs extension out front and his finish

Willie Mays Aikens is FREeeeeeeee

by Angel Aviator on Nov 20, 2008 10:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Kyle, I’m getting better at this :)

I saw the loading on his scapula and cringed even before I read your analysis. Maybe there’s some hope for the young pitchers I work with.

(BTW, I sent you an email a couple of weeks ago. Did you get, or get to look at, the videos I sent you of my son’s mechanics?)

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 21, 2008 2:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Your son...

I got those videos and I have looked at them but not in depth. Sorry about that; I will get back to you ASAP. Thanks for your patience.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 22, 2008 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not a problem. We appreciate any input you can offer.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Nov 22, 2008 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm a little confused

So his mechanics aren’t perfect, but they aren’t that bad. I don’t really understand the video comparison with Prior because I thought scap loading is good as long as its below the acromial line and no hyperabduction is present. Also, his tempo isn’t horrible. He’s around 21 frames and he’s 6’5". Isn’t that a little picky? Price was around the same but he received a better grade. I don’t know….I think Strasburg deserves more credit.

by Twinks on Nov 23, 2008 2:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t really understand the video comparison with Prior because I thought scap loading is good as long as its below the acromial line and no hyperabduction is present.

There’s a big difference between “forced” scapular loading/horizontal abduction and it existing naturally. Through reverse rotation and an “elbowy” arm action, you can see Strasberg intentionally take his elbow beyond his acromial line.

Price was at 20 frames and Strasberg is pushing 22. Of course Price received a better grade!

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 23, 2008 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ok

What’s the difference between forced scap loading and it existing naturally? It’s essentially the same motion, just depends on how you define one another. Just curious, how do you analyze such a thing? How can you tell one or the other?

by Twinks on Nov 24, 2008 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I'm with Twinks

Strasburg is 1 frame slower than Price, yet you give him a grade of avg-bad? 21-22 frames is not slow at all, especially considering the fact that strasburg is 6’5" according to the SDSU website (not 6’4"). The comparison to Mark Prior is absurb. Prior is a pitcher with poor timing who hyperabducts and has a tempo of around 30 frames. All they have in common is that they are tall right handed pitchers with good stats in college.

Sure Strasburg’s timing is slightly off, but he doesn’t rotate his shoulders until his arm is in the high-cocked position so his timing flaw won’t matter. His “grab” isn’t horrible – it’s not like scott baker or aaron crow. In fact, i would say Strasburg’s arm action is more similar to CC Sabathia than Mark Prior, the way he reverse rotates his arm.

Overall his mechanics aren’t perfect but they could sure be a lot worse.

by Prince 71 on Nov 23, 2008 5:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Strasburg is 1 frame slower than Price, yet you give him a grade of avg-bad?

Yes. It is slower than 20 fps. Price is right on 20 for the most part, Strasberg is at 22.

Sure Strasburg’s timing is slightly off, but he doesn’t rotate his shoulders until his arm is in the high-cocked position so his timing flaw won’t matter.

This is simply false and is verifiable by going frame by frame through the above video. His shoulders definitely turn before the arm is vertical.

His "grab" isn’t horrible – it’s not like scott baker or aaron crow.

Any/all grabs are bad. That it is not as bad as one of the worst in the game (Aaron Crow) doesn’t make it a good thing.

In fact, i would say Strasburg’s arm action is more similar to CC Sabathia than Mark Prior, the way he reverse rotates his arm.

Look at the still at the top of this page.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 23, 2008 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

KAPE

So if 19 fps is good, and 22 fps is bad, what does that make 30 fps?

If you broke the film down frame-by-frame and could see that his shoulders turn before his arm is vertical, then i believe you.

Didn’t say that his grab was a good thing, just that he barely does it, which means it will hardly put any extra stress on his arm.

And what is the point of the still frame? I still don’t know. You stopped it before strasburg’s foot has touched the ground.

by Prince 71 on Nov 24, 2008 9:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

So if 19 fps is good, and 22 fps is bad, what does that make 30 fps?

A really easy pitcher to steal on. :)

If you broke the film down frame-by-frame and could see that his shoulders turn before his arm is vertical, then i believe you.

I did, and do this for all pitchers.

And what is the point of the still frame? I still don’t know. You stopped it before strasburg’s foot has touched the ground.

I don’t have the tools to double-check this at the moment, but I will do a more in-depth analysis of Strasburg soon, as the entirety of the Internet is interested.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 25, 2008 12:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hmm...

Kyle, I really do respect the work and effort you put into your website. And I also believe that you know a lot about the game, especially the workings of pitchers. However, you do not hold back one bit on your personal opinions and bias’. Also, I think you tend to either “over-analyze” or “make-up” mechanical errors in pitchers.

1. ""And what is the point of the still frame? I still don’t know. You stopped it before strasburg’s foot has touched the ground.

I don’t have the tools to double-check this at the moment, but I will do a more in-depth analysis of Strasburg soon, as the entirety of the Internet is interested.""

How do you not have the tools to double-check it? All you need to do is scroll to the top of the page and explain why the video shows Strasburg with a foot not planted and Prior showing a planted foot.

2. The short responses you provide tell me and Prince17 say nothing. CC is a credible pitcher with above average mechanics, but you make no effort in attempting to answer/comment on…

“In fact, i would say Strasburg’s arm action is more similar to CC Sabathia than Mark Prior, the way he reverse rotates his arm.”

Explain what your take on this is versus saying look at a picture.

3. And I still don’t know what the difference between “forced” scap loading and “natural” scap loading because from the human eye, they appear to be the same thing. Can you help me diagnose this?

4. Recently you remarked Price at a 20 fps and Strasburg 22fps. When you qouted Price 20-21 and Strasburg at 21-22 for their analysis. Really?? I have an idea, let’s try to make Price look awesome and Strasburg look horrible.

by Twinks on Nov 25, 2008 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Answers

“How do you not have the tools to double-check it? All you need to do is scroll to the top of the page and explain why the video shows Strasburg with a foot not planted and Prior showing a planted foot.”

Because posting very slow frame-by-frame analysis is the best way to determine this; simply eyeballing it (even if it’s slowed down) can lead to errors.

“CC is a credible pitcher with above average mechanics…”

I can’t really comment on this, as I haven’t taken a look at his mechanics in depth.

" And I still don’t know what the difference between "forced" scap loading and "natural" scap loading because from the human eye, they appear to be the same thing. Can you help me diagnose this?"

Yes. Reverse rotation of the shoulders and breaking the arms “with the elbows” rather than using a pendulum swing is going to force a scapular loading pattern. Oftentimes with a pendulum swing arm action, there will be natural horizontal abduction. That’s fine.

“Recently you remarked Price at a 20 fps and Strasburg 22fps. When you qouted Price 20-21 and Strasburg at 21-22 for their analysis. Really?? I have an idea, let’s try to make Price look awesome and Strasburg look horrible.”

1 fps in this type of analysis is a difference of 5. A difference of 5 is comparable to a 90 mph fastball and an 85.5 mph fastball – no one would dispute that there is a huge difference. You will also note that I said Price is Average while Strasburg is Average-Bad, not just Bad. This isn’t a biased answer, even if I am a Rays fan.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 25, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Should be 5 percent...

The percent sign does not show up for some reason.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Nov 25, 2008 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Dalkowski110

I would expect the Cuban hitter to have a pretty good swing. His name is Alexei Bell and he holds the single-season record for homeruns in the Serie Nacional de Cuba. Plays right field and center field (the latter once in a blue moon); if he defected, he’d be in the Majors immediately after signing a contract.

As for the analysis of Strasburg, I like it. There’s one interesting photo I found on the net, though, that would seem to indicate that Strasburg does indeed have a bit more hyperabduction of his PAS elbow when he makes his inverted W than would seem to be evident in the video. This photo was taken on August 4, 2008…

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0dJ67zu8Ab9wl/610x.jpg

Of course it’s not as bad as Prior, but that reminds me an awful lot of some of the stills of Jeremy Bonderman in the same position.

by Dalkowski110 on Nov 27, 2008 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

wow

5%…really? That is good news for a young pitcher. My only question is, how do you know that? Do you have lots of statistical background on tons and tons of pitchers and their velocities and tempo? Also, for Strasburg, he throws mid 90’s and can hit upper 90’s, would it even be beneficial for him or could it effect his mechanics and not really do anything? With Prior being 30 fps, he could theoretically, according your analysis ,throw like 130 mph. Thats sweet.

by Twinks on Nov 29, 2008 5:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs