Hitter Profile: Justin Smoak (Part One)

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 1:48 PM PST in Hitting Mechanics Comment 46 comments

Justin Smoak just might be the one that got away from Billy Beane. He fits the mold of the Moneyball-type player that the A's stereotypically want - defensively-challenged (can't play anywhere but 1b), hit for a decent average in college, slugged a ton of doubles and home runs, and walked a bunch. In fact, Smoak was drafted by the A's in the 16th round after he graduated high school (fun fact: he played with top Orioles prospect Matt Wieters in South Carolina), but was in touch with advisors who told him that Oakland wanted to take him with the 36th overall pick and sign him for $950,000. Smoak demanded "$1 million and nothing less" to sign but the A's stood firm at $950,000, refusing to give in.

Oh, Billy Beane, why have you forsaken him?

Smoak did nothing but mash for the South Carolina Gamecocks, batting .315/.434/.631 over 260 AB and launching 22 home runs and 16 doubles. He showed off plate discipline (iso-obp of .129 with a 54:40 bb/k ratio) and had decent to above-average hands and range at first base.

Smoak was projected to go in the top ten picks of 2008, but when Angel Villalona was moved to 1b by the Giants, they had an easy pick in Buster Posey. The Marlins went with Kyle Skipworth, the Reds liked Yonder Alonso better, the White Sox wanted a middle infield prospect (James Beckham), the Nationals took (and failed to sign) Aaron Crow, and the Astros inexplicably took Jason Castro. With the Rangers waiting at #11 and the Athletics at #12, there was no doubt that Billy and company were hoping to see Smoak fall to them. It was not to be - the Rangers swiped Smoak and the Athletics had to settle for Jemile Weeks, which many people considered a stretch (he will not hit for power, he is limited to second base, and he is not especially fast).

Smoak inked a minor-league contract with a $3.5 million signing bonus just 15 minutes before the MLB deadline. Regarding the signing, GM Jon Daniels said: "This is a day we would have liked to have seen happen two months ago. But we think 10 or 15 years from now that will be irrelevant."

Smoak only had 56 AB in 2008 in the Midwest League due to the negotiations, but batted .304/.355/.518 in his short-stint in the Texas Rangers farm system.

Here's what Smoak's swing looks like as a lefty (thanks to Baseball-Intellect for the video):

Smoakleft_medium

In Part Two of our analysis, we'll break down that swing and talk about what we like and what we don't like about Smoak's hitting mechanics.

EDIT: Here's another image provided by the folks at Hitting Illustrated:

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Cool, really interested in part two.

Your 2010 Texas Rangers starting shortstop....(see pic)

by Kinslerhomer on Dec 23, 2008 2:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Not too happy about his downward hitch right after he steps

Dreaming of 2009

by RangerMoto on Dec 23, 2008 2:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Barry Bonds has an even bigger one.

Seems to work for him!

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He Must Make A Change

Justin Smoak has a major swing flaw that will have to be fixed if he wants to make the big leagues.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Elaborate?

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He shifts his weight THEN he swings. Therefore the power of the shift is NOT part of his unload….therefore all he swings with is his arm/hand push supported by the momentum of the lower body….not by lower body power. He spends a large portion of his lower body power before he swings. It needs to be there at launch and it is not.

That means he has poor adjustability…..and will always struggle with offspeed stuff.

The weight MUST shift as you swing. And this is why he struggles with off speed pitches.

BTW…..every Yeager hitter I’ve seen has the same problem. They do not do what high level swingers do.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

P.S. There is a LARGE difference between forward momentum and weight shift. Many….including Yeager….confuse the two.

Forward momentum is just that. Weight shift is the aggressive shift of the weight from the rear leg to the front leg. And that must happen during the unload….not before.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The hitter on the right is a Yeager trained hitter. The difference is huge. Ryan Howard….and all of the good/great pros….swing in a different pattern that what is taught by Yeager.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting.

Your posts sound interesting, but comparing Ryan Howard to a random hitter that Dr. Yeager trained is a little intellectually dishonest.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought you were interested in the high level swing….the mlb swing.

If not….no biggy.

BTW….Macias is a ss in the Padres organization who had a cup of coffee last year.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I figured it was Drew Macias. Does Yeager hold him up as the golden standard? I’m not aware of it, and I’m a Yeager disciple. For what it’s worth, he has problems with Josh Barfield as well, even though he “trained” him.

I am interested in the MLB high-level swing; of course. However, comparing one of the top power hitters with some SS in the Padres organization who is a journeyman at best is somewhat silly, IMO.

Dr. Yeager’s analysis of top-notch athletes is interesting to me, and he has worked with someone in the Royals’ organization who has said nothing but great things after working with him (and this is after problems with Englishbey).

Still, please continue to post. I really appreciate it.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeager’s theory will not produce the high level pattern.

Plain and simple. What he teaches is contrary to what big league hitters do.

Your statement about it being silly to compare a soon to be big leaguer to a successful big leaguer……is…..well….your statement is what is silly.

There is only one high level pattern. Anyone can do it. Some will do it better. Some will do it with more athleticism. For any player to reach his potential….whatever that may be….must swing in the high level pattern.

Yeager hitters do not.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Drew Macias and Ryan Howard are not the same type of hitter, nor do they have similar skillsets. That is why comparing the two is not necessarily a valid method. Macias is very patient and hits for next to no power while Howard is the polar opposite of that.

I get that we should compare what we hear with what the best do, but it’s important to find similar comps, IMO.

As for your comments about Yeager, I will abstain from comment without further evidence.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Skillsets differnt?

Absolutely. The video clearly shows that. And they need to be the same.

Therefore the Yeager trained hitter is not getting the proper skillset.

As to body type or hitter type…..power hitter v average hitter…..the pattern is the same. Exactly the same.

Wade Boggs would win almost any HR Derby contest he was in…..yet hit very few. Because he was ‘into’ average not power.

Ichiro puts on a power display in bp…..yet hits very few. He’s ‘into’ average.

The high level pattern is the high level pattern. It doesn’t matter who you use in a side by side comparison. You can see the obvious differences.

How about Pedroia? He’s in the same pattern. A little guy. Good hitter. Hits a few diners. Yet he does the same thing.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

a good swing pattern is good for hitting period. Whether a hitter uses that swing pattern to generate massive amounts of torque or uses it simply to make solid line drive contract doesn’t matter. The key to hitting is generating good torque and coordinating that with good to above average hand eye coordination. If a hitter doesn’t generate torque through a rotational swing pattern they are set up to be a below average hitter with major holes in their hitting zone and certain pitch patterns or pitches.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Dec 23, 2008 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This clip shows the difference….but it really isn’t about the head. The head is an indicator of a problem elsewhere.

Howard’s rotation is centered in his rear hip joint. He maintains his rear hip/leg load as he moves forward and it thrusts into the launch of the swing. The most powerful move. And….as a result….his rear hip turns in front of his hands…..a very important ingredient to the whip.

Macias’ rotation is centered in his front hip joint….after he has shifted his weight. His rear hip/leg is pulled forward by the rotation occuring in his front hip joint. That is NOT a powerful move. The power of the rear leg/hip launch is not available to him at launch. Therefore, he will not be as quick…and will have to launch earlier than Howard or those that swing in the high level pattern. Notice his hands are not pulled by the rear hip….they are pulled by the front hip. That is a huge loss of power because you can not create a whip with rotation centered in the front hip joint.

One last point….Howard turns the barrel in his hands. He can do that very efficiently because of his weight distribution. Macias can not turn the barrel….his lead arm pulls the bat forward and then he tries to push his top hand around the bottom. That is a very amateurish move.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Excellent analysis.

The isolation of the head indicates that Macias (whoever that is – Drew Macias of the Padres, I would imagine) is leaking and has a poor front leg block phase (as Yeager would call it).

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

His problem has nothing to do with a poor front leg block.

It has to do with the fact that he has spent his power before he launches. He shifted his weight….then he tries to swing.

A LARGE lack of power and quickness results

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree.

However, I don’t necessarily think that’s what Yeager advocates. I have his material and it’s not what he wants done.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

A premature weight shift into the front side is a problem with the front leg block phase of the swing.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No it is not.

The problem is he ‘spent’ his load…..the load in his rear hip/leg before he launched the swing.

THAT is what every Yeager hitter I’ve seen does.

None of them match mlb video when put side by side. Yet he trains professional hitters.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Can you send me your email address? I will send you a clip of a Yeager hitter who I’d like you to look at that I think does not fit the pattern you describe. He does not want it posted publicly.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

teacherman@teachersbilliards.com

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks.

Now I gotta find the clip. :)

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Did you send it? I didn’t get it.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 8:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hm.

I did. I’ll try it again.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah.

Wrong email address. Sending again right now.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 8:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The hitter you sent is Chris Lubanski…he’s an Epstein student.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hrm.

It shouldn’t have been. I’ll re-send it tomorrow.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Still waiting on the clip

by Teacherman on Dec 27, 2008 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It keeps bouncing from your mail server?

I have no idea what the deal is. I’ll try sending it again…

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 27, 2008 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

2 questions

1. Wouldn’t that mean that he is losing significant power?
2. Isn’t this something simple that he could change?

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 23, 2008 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

1. Not necessarily. Teacherman’s point is that Smoak’s early weight shift robs him of adjustability on offspeed pitches. So, yes, he would lack power on pitches he is fooled on, but he would also make poor contact.

2. Depends on the athlete. It’s hard to make big changes for anyone.

As for me, I like Smoak’s swing quite a bit, and I think Smoak is vastly superior to the Yeager hitter posted above.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoak is doing virtually the same thing as Macias.

Looks a little different. But both shift their weight before they swing.

You will not hit big league pitching doing that.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I will put Macias and Smoak next to each other and compare. Thank you for the clips!

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

A HUGE problem with Yeagers teaching is his “straightline push” stuff.

You can not maintain a rear hip/leg load until launch AND straightline push AND be able to adjust to offspeed.

IMPOSSIBLE.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

With this I agree.

I like the “series of pushes” that Yeager uses to explain the MLB pattern, but I definitely agree with you here.

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The only way to get momentum AND maintain the rear hip/leg load until launch….is to allow/cause hip rotation to happen before launch. This creates ‘stretch’ between the hands and the rear hip….that leads to the whip/cusp.

Without it you are simply pushing the barrel into the ball. That won’t fly.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Huh.

You sound a lot like Dr. Chris Yeager – creating the stretch separation cycle between the lower half and top half is something he talks about a ton in his work.

I wonder if something is lost in translation to his hitters, in that case.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 7:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeager talks of separation between the upper and lower half…..and he teaches it to be done with linear straightline pushes.

That is far from high level and totally inaccurate….and doesn’t stand up to video scrutiny.

The prope way to achieve separation is for the rear hip to ‘turn’ in front of the hands…..not push forward linearly.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Jack Mankin?

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by Kyle Boddy on Dec 23, 2008 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The overhead of Bonds is a GREAT instructional clip. Notice how the hips open LONG before launch. That can not be done with a straightline push.

Notice in the side view how that early hip opening….which is actually loading because it is involved in creating the stretch….. happens AS he stays back….maintaining his rear hip/leg load until launch.

This can not be done with straightline pushes.

by Teacherman on Dec 23, 2008 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you have any .gifs

of Chipper Jones or Mark Teixeira? Those are the 2 comps I’ve heard for him a ton and I’d like to know if he is doing something that different with his swing than them.

By 2028, Mark Teixeira will be in the HOF.
-The Outlaw

by Gdawg on Dec 23, 2008 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Smoak-a Relative

Glad to see a relative so much in the mix. He is of German heritage with an original family name of Rauch which translates into smoke in English. He should do okay as his bloodline has persistence as one of its hallmarks.

Sam R.

by BamaFan67 on Dec 23, 2008 4:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs