ASMI's Study of Dr. Marshall's Pitchers

For those who have not read this groundbreaking study, it's very interesting. It basically says that Dr. Marshall's pitchers exert the same (or more) force on their arms/shoulders but throw with less velocity, results that are consistent from anecdotal evidence. A major point of contention is that "The torque group generated significantly less (and later) trunk rotational velocity, which seems consistent with the teaching of the style," indicating that the lack of hip/torso separation is a major detractor of velocity due to failure to tap into the Kinetic Link as many exercise physiologists know it.

10 months ago Kyle Boddy Comment 8 comments 0 recs |

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The next logical question though is..

How come none of Marshall’s pitchers actually get injured?

Still, I agree that lack of hip/torso separation, in addition to Marshall’s distaste for weight training could be hurting his pitchers’ velocity.

by taro on Sep 12, 2008 11:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Danger!

How come none of Marshall’s pitchers actually get injured?

They do. You just don’t hear about it.

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by Kyle Boddy on Sep 12, 2008 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah.

That would be why.. I always thought Marshall taught mechanics that were great injury-prevention wise, but bad in a performance perspective.

It looks like that may not be the case.

by taro on Sep 12, 2008 11:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Way to jump from one assertion without evidence straight into another.

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by hazel on Sep 13, 2008 5:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The injury/force speculation is irrelevant

And 77 mph makes it irrelevant. Unless Marshall can produce a 90+ pitcher the motion has absolutely no hope.

by nickmueller on Sep 13, 2008 1:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A few things...

First of all, they tested 4 pitchers taught by Dr. Mike Marshall and threw out one of them because he didn’t throw hard enough. A sample size of 3 is not very significant. In addition, who’s to say these pitchers had the exact mechanics Dr. Marshall advocates? How long have these pitchers utilized their new mechanics? They threw 14 strikes in 48 pitches. That doesn’t say much for their ability.

Second of all, the study shows that the “torque group” (Marshall pitchers) exerts the same or more force on their arms/shoulders than the “elite group” (traditional mechanic pitchers). Perhaps Marshall pitchers exert this force on a different, stronger part of their arms/shoulder, a part that can better withstand the force.

Third of all, the torque group was compared to “healthy, elite pitchers previously tested at ASMI.” So obviously this perfect group will have better mechanics. Throw Mark Prior in the biomechanics lab. I’m guessing the makeshift group of Marshall pitchers shows better results, even after you adjust for the extreme difference in velocity (if that’s possible).

Overall, this was a pretty poorly conducted study. I’m not saying Marshall pitchers are better, but if the guys at ASMI were really trying to prove the hypothesis, they should have set up the study much differently.

by Prince 71 on Sep 13, 2008 10:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

This is, to my knowledge, the only scientific test that Marshall pitchers have consented to. We should absolutely continue to research.

Space.

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by hazel on Sep 13, 2008 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comments

In addition, who’s to say these pitchers had the exact mechanics Dr. Marshall advocates? How long have these pitchers utilized their new mechanics?

They definitely do not embody the mechanics that Dr. Marshall advocates – if you watch the video of Mike Farrenkopf, you can see that he has significant forearm bounce and drives the ball skyward, both significant mechanical (but not injurious) flaws.

However, I am pretty sure that two of the three pitchers they used have been with Dr. Marshall for a significant amount of time and have pitched professionally.

Second of all, the study shows that the "torque group" (Marshall pitchers) exerts the same or more force on their arms/shoulders than the "elite group" (traditional mechanic pitchers). Perhaps Marshall pitchers exert this force on a different, stronger part of their arms/shoulder, a part that can better withstand the force.

Yes, they do, but it is still inefficient since they displace their center of mass and attempt to drive the arm without utilizing the core muscles.

Third of all, the torque group was compared to "healthy, elite pitchers previously tested at ASMI." So obviously this perfect group will have better mechanics. Throw Mark Prior in the biomechanics lab. I’m guessing the makeshift group of Marshall pitchers shows better results, even after you adjust for the extreme difference in velocity (if that’s possible).

There’s a good chance Mark Prior was involved in the test group. That’s the issue – they take young pitchers who haven’t necessarily been injured. I’d like to see the full list.