News: Marshall's Students

by Kyle Boddy on Sep 27, 2008 4:31 PM PDT in News

If you read the story below this one (Rudy Seanez's pitching mechanics), you have undoubtably seen the flamewar that Dr. Marshall's students are causing. In their posts, they have claimed the following:

That I have never seen one of their pitchers throw an iron ball (false - videos are available online and I have seen ex-Marshall camp pitcher Neiman Nix throw them as well as his students from the drop-step and traditional windup)
That I think throwing iron balls are dangerous (false - that being said, their pitchers do not perform the exercises safely, and it is dangerous to them)
That the kinetic link does not work based on what other exercise physiologists believe (they state that unless the ball is moving forward, no energy is transferred to the arm through the stretch shortening cycle)
That Patrick Howe was not a Marshall pitcher (he was)
That Neiman Nix's pitchers are not Marshall pitchers (they are; they learn the drop-step windup and all of the same drills Dr. Marshall teaches)

Unfortunately, this is common amongst Marshall's followers. They have been banned on multiple forums for trolling and attacking people with ad hominems. They do not appreciate people compromising their leader's work and pointing out the flaws that his theories have (ASMI's study, for example).

It is quite sad that Dr. Marshall's students feel and act in these childish manners, but it repeats itself time and time again. There are many people in his camp that are polite and have open minds, but the few bad apples ruin the batch.

As an administrative note, I'd like to point out that both people in that thread (RogerThatSir and Gmaddux) have both been banned, and that all people from Marshall's camp will be banned in the future (with one exception of a person I know, who is more than welcome to post on our site - I will not name him to protect his privacy).

If you have comments about this policy, please leave them on this post, otherwise, do not spread them to other stories. Thank you.

0 recs | Comment 6 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

More evidence

Here is Colin Carmody’s (Gmaddux) email to me, in full, no edits:

First of all Kyle…

Pat doesn’t not train with Mike Marshall…. He did and now he doesn’t therefore he is not a marshall pitcher… DING DING DING

Next, you have no basis for your claims at all no schooling no research… everyone in the major leagues knows Doc knows more then them so they are afraid… you’re just to fucking wrapped up in the bullshit that all the other morons are talking about… ASMI is full of shit because they cant answer simple questions… doc points it out and they clam he’s attacking them… anyone who has written a theses knows how to defend one asmi doesn’t and feels threatened bc they cant answer the questions… Maybe if you’d like to learn something which I recommend you do, e-mail doc so you can see how little you actually know… btw I haven’t posted on you web site in weeks and somehow I’m banned?! Anyone that bans anyone for free speech is full of shit. I don’t know if you got where I was going with this but you are a FUCKING MORON! Ok FUCKING MORON if you missed that. That doesn’t explain it… NIX isn’t marshall therefore his guys aren’t marshall’s he doesn’t teach marshall’s stuff therefore they aren’t marshall’s. Maybe you should get into an argument with doc himself and I’m sure you minuscule amount of knowledge with be crushed and then you can crawl back into the hole you came from. Have a fucking amazing day you pussy son of a bitch.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Sep 27, 2008 5:53 PM PDT 0 recs

I regards to the banning

I don’t generally agree with banning but if someone were to write that in a post they would deserve to be banned. I don’t know why Marshall’s camp seems so hell bent on disproving everything someone says or thinks they have all the answers. The more you know the more you realize you don’t know is what I believe. Dr. Mike surely has some great ideas and his thoughts and teaching are very sound but there is much more to learn and I don’t believe everything he says, especially about traditional weight training. I don’t see how if you train your whole body how that wouldn’t make a positive impact in throwing a baseball. Sure some muscles are much more involved in throwing a baseball but that shouldn’t preclude you from training your full body. One of the best reason is for overall fitness which in time can lead to injuries that may not be directly involved in pitching but still could land you on the DL.

If we could have someone who was really in Marshall’s camp that had a better disposition and was willing to at least attempt to understand what is being said by others here it might give us a better clue on the mystery of pitching. My point is no one has the end all by all answer for every pitcher and that some training is more beneficial to a certain group of pitchers and some other training would be harmful. The way I see it is you train your whole body and use mechanics that best fit you body style and weaknesses. The basic framework should be the same given that the human anatomy is every similar from one to another but there is some room for slight variations.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Sep 27, 2008 8:13 PM PDT up 0 recs

Personally, I'm against the banning,

not because I think these people are anything more than a bunch of juvenile prigs who are unable to understand the concepts of scientific method and falsifiable evidence.

Instead, I’m against the banning because it’s possible that at some point some of them might grow up and realize that disagreeing over the conclusion of a discussion is not a reason to call it a conspiracy or start in with personal attacks. In general I’m always against ending a discussion when it’s even remotely possible that someone could learn something from it. Despite everything, until that last email I wouldn’t say it had gotten to the point that it was just trolling.

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=7203244128642418248&hl=en&autoplay=1

In my opinion, the real reason for the annoying lack of manners and constant whining of Marshallites is that in addition to not sidestepping and pronating, they are taught to ignore evidence, blame conspiracies, and whine incessantly by Marshall himself. Just listen to him in this video. Around the ninth minute he starts talking about how they pulled Jeff Sparks from games after he had left runners on, and they were just hoping these runners would score. That is totally unfounded bullcrap, and it’s unsurprising that people Marshall schools are likely to spout more of the same.

In the end, I’m not even disappointed with the way the discussion went. I don’t think we left a single question unanswered, nor did we really allow him to play many of his games moving around the goalposts or making unfounded claims.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Sep 28, 2008 8:09 AM PDT 0 recs

Instead, I’m against the banning because it’s possible that at some point some of them might grow up and realize that disagreeing over the conclusion of a discussion is not a reason to call it a conspiracy or start in with personal attacks.

I wish this were true. Unfortunately, they have never seen it this way – and there is a ton of history on them that goes back on various other sites, where they have been repeatedly warned and banned.

Webmaster of Driveline Mechanics
http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting

by Kyle Boddy on Sep 28, 2008 9:33 AM PDT up 0 recs

So does Dr. Marshall brainwash them?

Don't forget to send your broken maples to the US Forest Service.

by 306008 on Sep 28, 2008 8:11 AM PDT 0 recs

One thought on banning

is that it stifles conversation leading to a boring web site. Sure there are times when people are out of line and need to be banned or have comments deleted but it shouldn’t just happen because someone is argumentative or not typical of a group. I am not suggesting these Marshall people shouldn’t have been banned because clearly you know them more then I do but I do know this blog is dead around here the last few days with little conversation. Sometimes you allow bad comments or posters to exist simply because they create a buzz. When everyone agrees there is no buzz or discussion which to me is boring. I like to come to blogs not only to say my peace but to have a collective banter and I really don’t mind people agreeing about things as long as it doesn’t carry on to long or become personal. I wonder if you could try a sample banning as a warring. Why does someone have to be banned for life, could you give people a second chance. I like the three strikes and your out approach. You can argue that people are who they are and the will not change so a one time banning is the correct way but I am not so sure. Eistein was pretty head strong and I am sure many people would have banned his ideas had they had the chance. (p.s I am not saying these guys were geniuses) I would like to see more people post on this site and I am not sure how best to expand the posting rosters but controversy sometimes will help with that. Just my two cents.

Baseball is God's sport! All Truth Goes Through Three Stages 1.It is ridiculed 2.It is violently opposed 3.Finally, it is accepted as self-evident. kinesiologist

by E5 on Sep 30, 2008 7:46 PM PDT 0 recs