Division-By-Division 2009 Projected Starting Pitching Rankings By WAR: AL Central
NL East | NL Central | NL West | AL East | AL Central | AL West
This is the fourth in a series of six posts going through the MLB division-by-division to see which team has the best projected 2009 starting pitching by Wins Above Replacement (WAR) according to an average of the "Big Three" projection systems.. This post covers the rotations of a division that appears to be as "up for grabs " as any other in the majors: the AL Central. I actually had to do a bit of revising of my original big spreadsheet because the BP depth charts have undergone some revision since I originally started, which did effect some things. Surprises await...
Brandon "Ducky" Duckworth wants you to read on after the jump.
How Did I Come Up With These Numbers?
Some details on the methods used (if you don't care, you can jump straight to the "Team-By-Team")
- FIP is used as the primary pitching stat.
- The projected 2009 for each pitcher is generated by averagfing the projections of the three best publicly available projection systems: CHONE, ZiPS, and PECOTA. The projected FIP for CHONE and ZiPS are from the player pages at FanGraphs. I generated the PECOTA FIP myself from the big spreadsheet.
- Playing time/depth chart projections are based on Baseball Prospectus's depth charts (not the PECOTA weighted mean) in order to account for spot starters as well. These change every week; the playing times used are those that were up when I was writing the present post.
- No team only starts 5 players all year long. However, I've also included a "top 5" figure for each team, based on the top 5 projected starter WARs for each team (not the top five projected IPs).
- Value is based on a Win% generated using PythagenPat in relation to a average FIP-ERA of 4.40 and an RA of 4.76.
- Run values are generated by are scaling FIP to RA rather than ERA for better accuracy and to properly value pitchers with respect to hitters.
- An appropriate replacement level win percentage for starting pitchers is used, adjusted for relative league difficulty: .390 is replacement level for starters in the NL, and .370 for the AL.
- Adjustments for ballparks use the five-year regressed park factors used at FanGraphs.
- Adjustments are made for each pitcher's influence on his run environment through a dynamic run-to-win conversion for each individual pitcher.
- New feature starting with the AL Central post: aggregate team starter win %. Yay! Note: that this is not directly convertible to team WAR, as it is a simple weighted average based on individual win% and IP. There will be discrepancies between team win% and team WAR, which is based on individual win % because this rough calculation occurs before individual impcat on run environment is taken into account for run-to-win conversion. WAR is the focus here. This feature is just for fun and a rough little guide to quality in relation to average. WAR is still the main focus of this series.
- Neither the rates nor playing time projections are "mine." I have simply the projections, averaged them, and combined them with BP's playing time predictions. You can find the complete projected lines for each pitcher at the home sites for the systems (and FanGraphs, for CHONE and ZiPS). In other words, don't blame me if you lose money betting with this stuff...
Team-By-Team
| Player | IP | FIP | Win% | RAR | WAR |
| Cliff Lee | 200 | 3.84 | .559 | 37.9 | 3.8 |
| Fausto Carmona | 150 | 4.26 | .511 | 21.1 | 2.1 |
| Jeremy Sowers | 125 | 4.75 | .458 | 11.1 | 1.1 |
| Anthony Reyes | 110 | 4.83 | .451 | 8.9 | 0.9 |
| Aaron Laffey | 100 | 4.43 | .492 | 12.2 | 1.2 |
| Carl Pavano | 65 | 4.95 | .439 | 4.5 | 0.4 |
| David Huff | 60 | 4.43 | .492 | 7.3 | 0.7 |
| Jake Westbrook | 80 | 4.26 | .510 | 11.2 | 1.1 |
| Scott Lewis | 50 | 4.41 | .494 | 6.2 | 0.6 |
| Total | .498 | 11.9 | |||
| Top 5 | 9.3 |
Comment: Both CHONE and Baseball Prospectus currently have the Indians as the likely winners of the 2009 AL Central. This isn't that surprising, although (like many forecasts) it depends on a number of assumptions about the how successful the returns of Victor Martinez, Travis Hafner, etc. will be. In any case, it's pretty obvious here that if Cliff Lee completely reverts to his pre-2008 form or is out for an extended period of time, the divisional title aspirations for the Indians may be up in smoke, although, again, that's true for a lot of teams and their star players. Cleveland is attempting up for their lack of top-end quality with depth, as can be seen from the gap between the total projected WAR and the TOP 5. The .498 projected win percentage sees them as about average. As will be a theme throughout this post, there are a lot of variables here.... Insert Carl Pavano joke here.
| Player | IP | FIP | Win% | RAR | WAR |
| Justin Verlander | 195 | 4.10 | .534 | 31.9 | 3.2 |
| Jeremy Bonderman | 150 | 4.15 | .528 | 22.1 | 2.2 |
| Armando Galaragga | 165 | 4.85 | .454 | 13.9 | 1.3 |
| Edwin Jackson | 160 | 4.78 | .461 | 14.5 | 1.4 |
| Zach Miner | 80 | 4.29 | .512 | 11.3 | 1.1 |
| Nate Robertson | 110 | 4.70 | .469 | 10.9 | 1.1 |
| Dontrelle Willis | 70 | 5.18 | .423 | 3.7 | 0.3 |
| Rick Porcello | 55 | 5.76 | .374 | 0.2 | 0.0 |
| Total | .481 | 10.7 | |||
| Top 5 | 9.3 |
Comment: Blah blah blah joke about 1,000 run offense in 2008. The pitching (and defense) bombed last year. Adam Everett and Gerald Laird should help out on defense, but there are a lot of fingers crossed in Detroit, as those signings in addition to the Matt Joyce-for-Edwin Jackson trade portend a "win-now" season for an aging team; the pitchers can't blow it. Verlander is the only pitcher here who projects both as clearly above average in his rate stats and for a decent amount of innings. Bonderman looks above average when he's projected to pitch, but at this point, "disappointment" is probably the right word. Galaragga was a nice pickup, but he has to come back to earth eventually. Rick Porcello: replacement level picher. I miss Dontrelle Willis being good. Sorry for all of the negative comments -- in actuality, this group is better than some people think, and notice that their "Top 5" group is as good as Cleveland's.
| Player | IP | FIP | Win% | RAR | WAR |
| Scott Baker | 170 | 4.06 | .529 | 27.0 | 2.7 |
| Francisco Liriano | 160 | 3.86 | .553 | 29.3 | 3.0 |
| Nick Blackburn | 160 | 4.56 | .473 | 16.5 | 1.6 |
| Glen Perkins | 150 | 5.24 | .408 | 5.7 | 0.5 |
| Kevin Slowey | 170 | 3.96 | .541 | 29.1 | 2.9 |
| Philip Humber | 110 | 5.49 | .386 | 1.8 | 0.2 |
| Kevin Mulvey | 50 | 4.99 | .431 | 3.1 | 0.3 |
| Total | .486 |
11.2 | |||
| Top 5 | 10.7 |
Comment: I suppose that I'm not the only one that thought these guys would project a little better. Again, this is a situation where playing time is very important. If Liriano and Baker can avoid injuries, this is probably the best rotation in the division. Slowey is also a stud-in-the-making from the Twins' Brad Radke factory.. Imagine if they could get Tampa Bay to trade Matt Garza for Delmon Young. Nah, any GM stupid enough to do that should be fired forthwith, right? In terms of sheer win%, Baker, Liriano, and Slowey look like the best 1-2-3 punch in the division. Seems like the "Twins way" should probably involve overpaying for some crappy vet to take innings away from one or more of the young guys in the grand tradition of the Sidney Ponson and Livan Hernandez signings. To be fair, it does like young Philip Humber (part of the Johan Santana trade "bonanza") will be contributing quite a bit of near-replacement level sweetness this season.
| Player | IP | FIP | Win% | RAR | WAR |
| Mark Buerhle |
200 | 4.38 | .521 | 30.2 | 3.0 |
| John Danks | 175 | 4.21 | .540 | 29.8 | 3.0 |
| Gavin Floyd | 180 | 5.08 | .451 | 14.5 | 1.4 |
| Clayton Richard | 110 | 4.93 | .464 | 10.4 | 1.0 |
| Jose Contreras | 130 | 4.54 | .504 | 17.4 | 1.7 |
| Bartolo Colon | 80 | 4.79 | .478 | 8.6 | 0.8 |
| Jack Egbert | 40 | 4.69 | .489 | 4.7 | 0.5 |
| Lance Broadway | 40 | 5.89 | .382 | 0.5 | 0.0 |
| Aaron Poreda | 40 | 5.08 | .451 | 3.2 | 0.3 |
| Total | .490 | 11.8 | |||
| Top 5 | 9.3 |
Comment: If you ask me, Kenny Williams is one of the most entertaining GMs in baseball. No, I don't think he's great. I don't think he's terrible. I don't know what to think. Sometimes he makes moves that I think are stupid, and they work out well. Or he makes moves that make me think he's "getting it," and they bomb. It's fun to watch from a distance, although it must be brutally exhausting for White Sox fans. If you read my NL East post in this series, you'll see that Javier Vazquez is projected at about 2 wins better than anyone else on the White Sox currently. The ChiSox got young guys in return and are clearly trimming salary (Vazquez and Swisher wouldn't have been my choices, but see my comments about my judgments re: Williams' past moves above), so we'll have to wait and see how it works out in big picture, but, again, with Vazquez, this would easily be the best rotation in the division... Gavin Floyd, meet reality. Jose Contreras may be old, but White Sox fans would certainly rather see him out there than Bartolo Colon. John Danks turns 24 in April, and looks like a stud-in-the-making.
| Player | IP | FIP | Win% | RAR | WAR |
| Gil Meche | 195 | 4.03 | .542 | 33.6 | 3.4 |
| Zack Greinke | 190 | 3.92 | .555 | 35.2 | 3.6 |
| Brian Bannister | 160 | 4.82 | .457 | 13.9 | 1.3 |
| Kyle Davies | 140 | 4.93 | .446 | 10.6 | 1.0 |
| Luke Hochevar | 140 | 4.81 | .457 | 12.2 | 1.2 |
| Horacio Ramirez | 60 | 4.39 | .501 | 7.9 | 0.8 |
| Brandon Duckworth | 30 | 4.84 | .454 | 2.5 | 0.2 |
| Sidney Ponson | 60 | 5.00 | .440 | 4.2 | 0.4 |
| Total | .493 | 11.9 | |||
| Top 5 | 10.5 |
Comment: I've had some harsh words for Royals GM Dayton Moore this offseason, and I'm not taking them back now. But I have to hand it to the man: he's put together a respectable rotation. True, like many of the Royals' best players, young ace Zack Greinke is a holdover from the previous administration (as are Alex Gordon, David DeJesus, Mike Aviles, and Billy Butler) , but Moore did manage to extend him. And although the Gil Meche contract now looks like a giant outlier among Moore's ...questionable... record with free agents, it's been a dandy. Greinke and Meche project as the best 1-2 punch in the division by both WAR and individual win%. Going just by WAR, they project as the 2nd and 3rd best pitchers in the division (behind Cliff Lee). Neither Bannister nor Davies looks like a world beater, but they can at least hold down the back of the rotation decently, and were acquired by trading older and expensive (Octavio Dotel for Davies) or young and overrated "live arms" (Ambriox Burgos for Bannister) for cheap young production. Um, no, I personally don't think Ho-Ram is a .501 starting pitcher. The projection systems probably don't differentiate between his time as a starter and as a reliever. But hey, I'm just following the numbers here. There's no homerism. There are "issues" like that all over this series, and if I start making half-baked subjective adjustments of my own in one place, I'll have to do it everywhere, and we end up with a bunch of junk. Before Carlos Rosa got sent back to Omaha to be a reliever, the Royals actually projected slightly better, but Sir Sidney isn't going to kill them too badly with only 60 innings (gulp), although the acquisition may trigger a crisis of epic proportions... P. S. Ducky rules.
Let's see the final results:
| Rank | Team | Total SP WAR | Top 5 WAR | Win% |
| 1 | Royals | 11.9 | 10.5 | .493 |
| 1 | Indians | 11.9 | 9.3 | .498 |
| 3 | White Sox | 11.8 | 9.4 | .490 |
| 4 | Twins | 11.2 | 10.7 | .486 |
| 5 | Tigers | 10.7 | 9.3 | .481 |
| Total | 57.5 | 49.2 |
Final Thoughts: That is very close, with all five teams are within 1.2 WAR. KC and Cleveland are tied on top at 11.9, with Chicago right behind at 11.8. No group of starters (including spot starters) projects as average (.500 or greater win%), although all are pretty close. While the top teams are worse than any other top divisional teams (at least so far), the bottom team is better than any other bottom team... Until the recent depth chart changes on both teams, Cleveland was further down the list, and KC was the clear #1. I was excited about that, but I had to give in to what the projections now say... On one hand, I could give it to Cleveland on the basis of the superior win%, but on the other, KC has the better "Top 5." So I have them tied, with KC listed first (in your face, Kyle!). Besides, as I noted above, the calculations for aggregate win% are only a "rough guide," anyway. And that's the mess with this whole division -- things are so close. Given the nature of projections in general, the potential for devastating pitcher injury, young player unpredictability, etc. it's not that far fetched to see any of the teams having the best starting WAR at the end of the season. For fans of the Indians, the Twins (my "gut" tells me this is really the best rotation in the division, but you know what the gut's brains are made of...), and the Tigers, it's pretty clear that their rotations definitely have question marks, but are each good enough to potentially help win the division. For Royals fans, there's a good young core there, and hopefully the position players can catch up. For White Sox fans... hey, you know Kenny better than I do, you tell me what to expect, I have no clue. I guess that's why Kenny Williams is the GM, and I'm the blog-talkin' guy...
Next up: NL West (later this week, probably Wednesday or Thursday)
2 recs |
26 comments
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Comments
I have to say
I was STUNNED to see Gil Meche’s WAR so high. So, I went to StatCorner, looked him up, and saw that he was worth 4.3 WAR last year. Seriously?!
Greinke was worth 5.0 WAR, too. If only the Ro’s could find an offense that knew how to play baseball…
by jwiscarson on Mar 23, 2009 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Meche has been damned good the last two years
He has pitched like a borderline #1/#2 SP over the last two years. For whatever reason, he really turned a corner when he came to KC.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 23, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
STEROIDS!!!!!!11111
(I’m sure NYRoyal knows, but for those that don’t — yes, I’m just kidding.)
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then again...
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 23, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
pressure of the big contract… young and stupid (he was only 28!)… has a cousin from Cajun country…
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Royals are a hotbed for PED use
Guillen, Grimsley, Sweeney, Brett.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 23, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great work
Excellent stuff. Just a couple little things. As I started working this morning on a comparison of AL Central starting pitching depth, I had to do some research on who the 5, 6, 7, 8 SP’s for each team was. That, of course, is probably the hardest part of this. I know you are going by BP’s playing time estimations, which is a fine, objective way to do it. But, of course, they don’t know who really is where on the depth chart. I think you’ve got the top 5 correct for each team. I found that very little has been written about the Twins fifth starter competition, but with Bonser out for the year, R.A. Dickey has pitched as much in ST A-games as any Twins pitcher, so I think he’s in the top 8 mix (I think he’s likely #6 on the depth chart). And Jeff Marquez has been on all of the short lists for the Chisox fifth starter spot, so he’s probably somewhere in their top 8. Egbert and Broadway hardly get a mention.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 23, 2009 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, that's definitely worth noting and a good point
As I said in an earlier thread (hey, and feel free to FanShot this around SBNation, folks… I feel like a dork doing it myself, but if I beg others to do it, it’s somehow less pathetic), this whole thing started out from me trying to figure out how much the As depth helped them relative to overall top 5 quality. I guess I’m more “passing the buck” onto Clay, et. al., because I simply don’t feel comfortable projecting playing tim on my own. So hopefully, people will be keeping that in mind when they read about their favorite teams, and can make the “adjustments.”
And, of course, the Depth Charts change every week, so this might already be out of date.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
egbert would get a mention if one were to go that deep.
assuming colon and contreras are healthy, the guys to line up behind would be richard, marquez, egbert and broadway – in that order.
by larry on Mar 23, 2009 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
larry!
good to see you here… Danks’ projections aren’t bad, but I kinda thought they would be better. For some reason (maybe because everyone else is), I’m pretty high on Danks.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the projection systems don't know that he developed a cutter last season.
the article at BP on danks a few weeks back is an excellent explication.
by larry on Mar 23, 2009 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, I'll have to check that out
BP as in “Prospectus” or as in the (former) “Primer?”
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poreda's not in the mix?
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 23, 2009 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no.
he doesn’t have the secondary offerings yet. we’re actually having a discussion on southsidesox right now about this, if you’re interested in more info (on the indians preview thread). plus fastball, slider is okay, but the changeup, his current third offering, is awful. the motion is completely different from his other two pitches so it’s obvious it’s coming. apparently last saturday they started teaching him a curve so maybe that will work. he needs quite a bit of time in AAA before he’d be able to start in the majors. with his fastball and being a lefty he could be in the pen now – and that would likely be the role he’d appear in later this season if he were called up (i’d say there’s a good chance of this, considering the lack of lefty options in the white sox system).
we still can’t figure out what the deal is with the marquez love but he’s in line for a bullpen spot and is considered ahead of the others. egbert is better than him, and probably broadway, too, but whatever.
by larry on Mar 23, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I forgot to mention that
“Egbert” is an awesome name.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 24, 2009 8:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey so i stole your stuff
thanks for putting in the time on this. i’ve got a post scheduled on SSS for tomorrow, though i didn’t add much more than my expertise on the players in question. it was perfect for my series on AL Central player WARs though, so thanks. these alone make it worth it to keep DM in my reader.
I can lead you to 4 Wisdom, but I can't free your brain from the evil of Punto.
by colintj on Mar 23, 2009 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great work d_f.
Now if only Dayton Moore had an opposite twin who understood how to sensibly acquire hitting talent……………………
The Royals might be contenders.
by hunter s. royal on Mar 23, 2009 7:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
or at least not to trade away cheap, cost-controlled relievers for expensive and/or crappy position players
thus saving money for, I dunno, a second baseman who might WAR better than 1?
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by devil_fingers on Mar 23, 2009 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I ran the numbers again last night
Teahen came out 1.9 WAR better than Guillen in right field
suicide now
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by devil_fingers on Mar 24, 2009 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that's 2.2 WAR for Teahen in RF?
I’ll say it here because I don’t want to say it elsewhere: the “trade Teahen for a bag of balls” crowd are just plain morons, either that or they don’t understand that there are these numbers which describe how good or bad a baseball player is.
The immoderate moderator
by NYRoyal on Mar 26, 2009 3:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
That might b ea bit off — I haven to run in a minute (after my “heart & gut” prediction!), but I don’t remember what I put in for defense fro CHONE, it might be a bit low. On the other hand, those projections might be a bit optimistic for him.
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by devil_fingers on Mar 26, 2009 8:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my face?
In YOUR face! Your monthly paycheck will be delayed just that much longer. Stupid statistics.
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http://www.drivelinemechanics.com - An Unconventional Look at Scouting
by Kyle Boddy on Mar 24, 2009 6:55 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Twins projections
I did a similar projection of the AL Central teams in January using Sky Kalkman’s WAR spreadsheets, which are normalized to ERA rather than RA. I used an average (eyeballed) from the available fangraphs projections, including CHONE and Bill James at that point. I came up with:
1. Minnesota: 15.3 WAR
2. Cleveland: 13.0 WAR
3. Detroit: 11.8 WAR
4. Kansas City: 11.7 WAR
5. Chicago: 10.1 WAR
For the Twins, I used the following projections:
1. Francisco Liriano: 160 IP, 3.55 FIP, 3.9 WAR
2. Scott Baker: 175 IP, 3.95 FIP, 3.3 WAR
3. Kevin Slowey: 170 IP, 3.90 FIP, 3.3 WAR
4. Nick Blackburn: 180 IP, 4.35 FIP, 2.5 WAR
5. Glen Perkins: 150 IP, 4.80 FIP, 1.3 WAR
6. Phil Humber: 50 IP, 4.90 FIP, 0.4 WAR
7. Boof Bonser: 50 IP, 4.40 FIP, 0.7 WAR
With Boof’s injury, he may not be an option. Glen Perkins is a wild card. His peripherals were not great in 2008, posting a FIP of 5.14 last year. A few numbers give me cautious optimism for next year:
- Perkins had a 4.77 FIP entering September, through 131.2 IP. He simply ran out of gas at the end of the season, perhaps not surprising considering he was limited to 48 innings in 2007 due to injury
- Perkins was a little unlucky last year, with an 11.7% HR/FB rate.
I’m a shameless homer, but I think Perkins will post a sub-5.00 FIP in 2009 and end up above a 1.0 WAR. Not great, but not well into the 5’s as projected by the CHONE-PECOTA-ZiPS average.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 24, 2009 11:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting stuff
I’m not big on the James projections, myself, but that’s about all there was at that time. I thought playing time was important to account for the relative benefits (whatever they are) of organizational “depth,” but didn’t have enough knowledge ot get specific with each team.
I coordinated the KC spreadsheet. On the group project, Sky wanted us to use FIP, although you can do what you want, you know? For the BtBS “community projection” (whatever happened to that project, by the way?), that is — you can use the WAR spreadsheet for whatever, of course.
Another difference is that Sky used the normal Pythag for those spreadsheets, whereas I used PythagenPat here. Also, those sheets don’t adjust for parks. Not a huge deal, just a point worth making about how we might have come out differently.
Thanks for your comments. I hope you keep stopping by!
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by devil_fingers on Mar 24, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs









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