Driveline Mechanics: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
New Blog: Once A Metro covering Red Bull New York!

1996: The Twilight of Roger Clemens' Career?

In a recent interview, Dan Duqette, General Manager of the Red Sox from 1996-2002, with reference to that "other stuff" that I'm sick of reading about and don't really want to write about, was asked again about his famous "twilight of his career" comments during his negotations with the Clemens camp, during which he made a non-infamous public comment about Roger Clemens being in the "twilight of his career." The aftermath of this, of course, was Clemens going to Toronto and winning two Cy Youngs in a row in 1997 and 1998. Then he retired on top. No, wait, I mean he pitched 9 more seasons after that and won two more Cy Youngs while appearing in in several World Series, winning two with the Yankees in 1999 and 2000.

In an ensuing discussion at Baseball Primer Think Factory, some commentators wondered whether or not it was reasonable for Duquette to have seen Clemens as being on the decline. In an obvious sense, the answer is "yes," as almost all baseball players (with very, very few exceptions outside of Barry Bonds and Honus Wagner) are in the "twilight of their career' at 33. Again, I'm not going to discuss the "other stuff" that may or may nor have helped Clemens in his post-1996 career. Nor am I really interested in evaluating the state of sabermetric analysis inside and and outside of baseball at that point. What I simply want to do is to see what "twilight" meant at that point. Again, this isn't meant to say what Duquette "should have known," especially since Voros McCracken's discoveries were a long way off. This is just to gain a big of perspective on Clemen's status in the game using more contemporary methods of pitcher valuation such as those used here.

Using FIP (Fielding Indepedent Pitching) -ERA to calculate pitcher WAR (Wins Above Replacement), here are my calculations for the top 5 pitchers in the American League in 1996.

Player IP FIP Win% RAR WAR
Roger Clemens 242.7 3.57 .665 69.2 6.8
Kevin Appier 211.3 3.53 .650 59.2 5.7
Ken Hill 250.7 4.14 .601 58.0 5.5
Pat Hentgen 265.7 4.07 .586 57.4 5.4
Charles Nagy 222.0 3.90 .613 53.8 5.1

 

For good measure, let me (without introduction) do the same calculation using BaseRuns-FIP as developed by Colin Wyers, a very cool dynamic FIP that I want to start using more and more and my "go to" pitching stat, and hope discuss in more detail down the road. I've simply droppped it in in place of FIP while using the same methods for getting win%, the same park adjustments, etc. as above. Once again: the 5 most valauble AL pitchers of 1996:

Player IP BsR-FIP Win% RAR WAR
Pat Hentgen 265.7 3.95 .666 78.6 7.8
Roger Clemens 242.7 3.79 .672 73.2 7.2
Kevin Appier 211.3 3.60 .690 67.6 6.7
Charles Nagy 222.0 3.84 .655 63.3 6.2
Ken Hill 250.7 4.19 .625 63.9 6.1

 

Clearly, the Cy Young voters that season preferred BsR-FIP over the other kind!

There are a lot of factors that go into a decision to resign a player. We haven't gone into the negotiations or Clemens' recent performance. This isn't a career retrospective, or an evaluation of Duquette's decisionmaking. But looking at the numbers above, I think it is fair to say that "twilight of his career" may have been pushing it.

0 recs  |  Comment 3 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Driveline Mechanics

Pronated Curveballs/Sliders

Dec 2008 by Kyle Boddy - 1 comment

Comments

Display:

I think that you have some of your numbers mixed up

Hentgen had a 3.95 FIP in ‘96, and a 3.22 ERA. The BsR-FIP might we wrong for him too as it’s unlikely it would exactly match his FIP.

St. Louis Cardinals... defying win expectancy since 2008

by vivaelpujols on May 14, 2009 10:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

d'oh, thanks

I’ll correct it now. I got the ERA and FIP column mixed up… the numbers are still a bit different than FanGraphs or whereever, not sure why maybe discrepancies in how we figure IP, the FIP Constant, and or how HBP and iBB are handled.

The BsR-FIP is fine, though.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 14, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, there were some other problems, too

it was simply me looking at the MySQl results window and typing things from the wrong columns into the table. All those ERA/FIP/BsR-FIP numbers looked the same.

The WAR numbers (the important ones) were all correct.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

by Matt Klaassen on May 14, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to Driveline Mechanics!
Start posting on Driveline Mechanics »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

Connect_with_facebook

Cbs_fantasy_baseball_promo

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Small
SB Nation Survey + Chance to donate $500 to a charity of this community's choice
Small
Pitching Mechanics Retrospective
Small
Why the Blue Jays are a pitching mechanics train wreck.
Small
Brandon League's unusual arm action
Small
Summary: Aroldis Chapman's mechanics.
Small
The Blue Jays: A trainwreck of pitching mechanics.
Small
Re: Analysis of Justin Duchscherer's pitching mechanics.

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SBNation.com Recent Stories

Chicago Cubs pitcher Angel Guzman, center, rubs the head of teammate Carlos Marmol, left, while chatting with Marmol and manager Lou Piniella, right, on the first day of baseball spring training Thursday, Feb. 18, 2010, in Mesa, Ariz. (AP Photo/Paul Connors)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: Chicago Cubs, Seeking Redemption

New York Mets starting pitchers Mike Pelfrey, left, Johan Santana, center, and Oliver Perez watch as teammates take part in drills during spring training baseball Saturday, Feb. 27, 2010, in Port St. Lucie, Fla. (AP Photo/Jeff Roberson)

SB Nation's 2010 MLB Previews: New York Mets, The High Cost Of Low Expectations

Washington Nationals pitcher Stephen Strasburg throws during the second inning of  a spring training baseball game against the Detroit Tigers Tuesday, March 9, 2010 in Viera, Fla. (AP Photo/Charlie Riedel)

Nationals Send Stephen Strasburg To Double-A Despite Impressive Spring

More from SBNation.com >


Managers

Me_-_baseball_small Kyle Boddy

Editors

Photo_29_small hazel

Newavatar_small Matt Klaassen

1753738656_110919ebe9_o_small vivaelpujols