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Lousy Lineup Optimizer: San Francisco Giants

The eight of you who are familiar with this series will remember that "Lousy" in the title does not necessarily refer to the lineup, but perhaps to the optimization procedure, or, as the "Optimizer" (me). The Giants have made some additions down the stretch (Ryan Garko and Freddy Sanchez) as they push for a wildcard spot. No, Garko and Sanchez aren't exactly mashers, and those trades were not exactly universally acclaimed. However, it is also true that in the short term they are better hitters than Travis Ishikawa and Emmanuel Burriss. But does the lineup still qualify as lousy? Since I agree with those who say we should look forward by checking out a player's "true talent" estimate (using past performance, age adjustment, environment, etc) rather than the past -- maybe not. And when I look at the ZipS RoS projections for the starters for the Giants, their average wOBA is about league-average.

That being said, as of this writing the Giants have the second least-productive offense in baseball at 96.8 park-adjusted Batting Runs below average. The SBNation Giants site, McCovey Chronicles, has "In play: Out(s)" as its (awesome) subtitle.  And let's face it: I wanted to write about a team that actually is playing meaningful games at this point. Sure, over a full season, an optimized lineup will only probably only gain a team between 5 and 15 runs, so over these last six weeks, even 4 runs would be a miracle. But, hey, teams spend a lot of resources on trades that accomplish a lot less than that. Why not do something that will help you team win that won't cost you anything more?

But this all pales in comparison to the biggest justification for this column: any team using Bengie Molina as their everyday cleanup hitter definitely could be getting more out of their batting order.

Star-divide

Lineup Optimization by The Book

This is the fourth in an occasional series have been writing batting orders of particular teams. The general principles are largely drawn from The Book, which is worth checking out on this and many other topics. Sky Kalkman gives a good, brief rundown in this article. While there is already good stuff out there, I like to do this things for myself.

Here are a few of the guidelines (with my own twists). Yes, there is a lot of stuff here... Feel free to skim or skip this stuff and browse down to the "Getting to the Point" section, although if you aren't somewhat familiar with The Book's ideas on lineup optimization, it's at least worth skimming this section.

  • "It's all relative." Although this isn't directly stated in The Book or in any of the summaries I've seen, I think it's worth noting: the appropriate spot in the batting order for any particular player is relative. People talk about having a "true leadoff man" or a "#4 hitter" or that a player has a swing that's just perfect for hitting #2 or whatever. But the truth is, a player's "best" place in a lineup depends on his skills relative to the other players.
  • Where should the best hitter hit? The best five hitters (by wOBA or equivalent stat (e.g., not OPS) should be in the top five spots. Of those 5, generally, the best hitters will be in the #1, #2, and #4 spots. Ideally, of these three the hitter in the #1 spot will have the best OBP, the #4 hitter will have the most power, and the #2 hitter will be somewhere in between (relative to the #1 and #4 hitters). The best hitter will probably be in the #2 or #4 spot. The fourth and fifth best hitters will be in the #5 and #3 spots, respectively. Yes, you read that right: the #3 hitter's only advantage in run expectancy over #5 is in home runs. Of the top five spots, this is where you want your low-OBP slugger. As we'll see, platoon issues can make getting the best into the ## 1,2 and 4 slots tough, but getting them into the top 5 is pretty close.
  • The other half: In slots ##6-9, simply go in descending order of hitter quality, keeping in mind:
  • Platoon issues: Separating lefties takes a certain precedence, since this prevents the opposing team from leveraging LHPs against your lefties, who generally have bigger platoon splits. Moreover, given platoon splits (more on how these are generated in the next section), different batting orders against RHP and LHP are in order (har har). This also means that if your best hitters are lefties, they may not get into the "ideal" spots next to each other.
  • Can pinch hitting help? Note that in the chapter on platoons, the authors of The Book show that pinch hitting to gain the platoon advantage really doesn't solve this and other problems since the penalty pinch hitters suffer from the difficulty of  hitting off of the bench offsets the platoon advantage they might gain.
  • Speed on the bases: Baserunning and basestealing are important, but are difficult to place, since often (but not always) the same players are good at both. In general, you want good baserunners (aside from stealing -- those good at taking the extra base, scoring from first on a double, etc.) in front of good contact hitters who can "move them over." Basestealers are best leveraged in front of poor hitters who have trouble moving them over. In both cases, if possible, avoid putting these players in front of high-power hitters, since this negates the advantage of those skills. So while your good baserunner might best be utilized at the top of the order (e.g., in front of a #2 hitter with moderate power), your best basestealer will likely be best utilized in further down the order in front of poor hitters -- say, in the #5 or #6 spot.
  • The Jim Rice Effect. Some spots have a greater odds of facing double play situations. The spot that sees the most DP situations is #3 by far, followed by #2. Therefore, try to avoid having high GDP players in those spots. The spot that sees the least (particularly in the NL) is the leadoff spot. So some times if you have an excellent hitter who also hits into a good number of DPs, even if he is slow, it might be worth it to move him into the leadoff spot.
  • Movin' on up: The "second leadoff hitter" theory has some validity -- having a #9 hitter who can "set the table" for the top of the order does increase run expectancy, so putting the worst hitter 8th sometimes helps. However, this worst hitter has to be really, really horrible in order for the advantage to obtain. In other words, in National League parks, hitting the pitcher 8th is the smart move according to The Book, although it is worth noting that Tom Tango wrote the chapter on lineups, and Mitchel Litchman (aka "MGL") is more circumspect regarding the value of the pitcher hitting 8th.
  • Remember that who is in the lineup is much more important that what order it goes in. So relax -- despite my nitpicking over two points of wOBA here and there, it really doesn' t matter that much. But it sure is fun to quibble...

Projected Stats, Sources, and Ground Rules for this Series

  • Who gets in? Again ultimately, who is in the lineup is more important than what order they go in. Having said that, in this occasional series my focus is opposite issue -- the order. So I'm generally going to accept whatever group of players the manager is throwing out there, whether I think it is the right group or not. I won't always get this right, since lineups change day-to-day depending on how players are feelings, how much acid reflux the manager had the night before, etc.
  • Where are those numbers coming from?, the basics: For each posts raw batting stats, I'll either use projections from one or more of the more popular projection systems (CHONE, ZiPS, PECOTA, or maybe even in-season Marcels), or if it's a "reader request" and the requester wants to submit his or her own numbers, that's fine, too. This far into the year, the beginning of the season projections are still pretty good, but some players are peforming differently enough (or are getting more PAs than expected) that our projections change. For wOBA/AVG/OBP/SLG stats for this column on the Giants, I'll be using the handy ZiPS In-Season projections ("RoS") as listed at FanGraphs on Sunday August the 16th. For steals, I'm generating the runs above average per ~150 games from ZiPS preseason projections for reasons we can get into in the comments if you really want to...
  • Who is the better hitter? From these stats, I will generate a wOBA (if it isn't done already, such as at FanGraphs) for each player. wOBA (weighted on-base average), for those who don't know, is the total offensive value stat that has taken the baseball internet by storm. Introduced by the authors of The Book and invented by Tom Tango, wOBA takes care of all the problems OPS had in terms of the weighting of OBP and SLG, doubles and home runs. It's roughly on an OBP scale, so something between .330-.340 is about average. For the version used at FanGraphs, .330 was about the MLB nonpitcher average in 2008.  You can read more around the 'net, but in short: if one player has a better wOBA than another, he's a more productive hitter, period. wOBA for players can be found at FanGraphs and Stat Corner, for now, and probably more places as time moves on...
  • What about platoon splits? As The Book  also explains (I'm telling you, you really should read it!), while each player has his own platoon split, it takes a lot longer than you would think to establish it -- it takes about 2,000 PAs against LHP for right-handed hitters to be able to say with some degree of confidence what their platoon split is -- so that's means only guys in the league a long time. For left-handed hitters, since there is more variability, it doesn't take as long -- about 1,000 PAs. Still, only veterans really get that far. Until then, most players should be assumed to have the league average platoon split. So, following the procedure used in by the authors for earlier years, I took the average wOBA and  OBP splits for the 2005-2008 AL (it was easier to exclude pitchers that way) and applied them to each player. The only stats I will be adjusting this for are wOBA and OBP. BA, SLG, ISO are the generic ones, just to get a sense of the "kind" of hitter a guy is, obviously, those will change, too. but are harder to adjust for generically. In the "vs. RHP" and "vs. LHP" lineups, the wOBA and OBP figures are adjusted for league-average splits, and are thus italicized. [For more on estimating platoon skills, read this.]
  • What about Stolen Bases? I took the linear weights SB/CS runs projected by ZiPS before the season and prorated for ~600 PAs.
  • And baserunning? A bit more complicated... In the previous installments, I used Baseball Prospectus'  EQBRR stats minus the stolen basees component. But I realized that what we're really looking here is just the runners ability to advance on hits, so starting with the Giants, I'm just  using the EqHAR component. I did a primitive Marcels-type projection with them, without age adjustments, but with regression  incorporating the Speed Score listed in the CHONE projections. Just to get a feel for the relative abilty of the baserunners, I projected runs values above/below average per 50 advancement opportunities. The listed numbers are projected baserunning runs above/below average per 600 PAs.
  • How about grounding into double plays? In short, the new Baseball Reference came out with information on GiDPs, opps, league averages and stuff. So I was able to do another pseudo-Marcel. The number listed is the GiDP runs above (avoided) or below (grounded into ) average per 600 PAs, normalized for the average number of opportunities seen over 600 PAs from 2005-2008. 

Getting to the Point

Below are the raw, un-platooned stats projected as of August 16, 2009 for the Giants from the ZiPS RoS projections at FanGraphs with some other stuff. I had a hard time figuring out who the Giants were going to start in left field. I originally did the lineups with Fred Lewis in LF (he's a really good baserunner, by the way), but a commentator in another thread said Nate Schierholtz was probably going to be getting most of the starts, so I subbed  him in (his projection is also better than Lewis's). I hope I didn't screw too much stuff up. Below is something like a recent Giant batting order according to baseball-reference.com, except with Nate Schierholtz hitting in the #1 place instead of Velez.

 

 

2009 pseudo-Giants Batting Order 2009 ZiPS In=Season Projections + Some Other Stuff

Player Pos.
wOBA BA OBP SLG ISO EqHAR SBr GDPr
Nate Schierholtz
LF
L .341 .300 .328 .464 .164 0.2
0.4 1.3
Freddy Sanchez
2B R .324 .291 .335 .437 .146 1.1 -0.5 -0.1
Pablo Sandoval
3B
S
.359 .301 .337 .503 .202 -0.2 -0.5 0.1
Bengie Molina
C R
.309 .277 .299 .416 ..139 -2.2 0.0 -1.8
Ryan Garko
1B R
.336 .270 .345 .413 .143 -1.9 0.0 0.5
Randy Winn
RF S
.327 .279 .337 .396 .117 0.6 1.6 1.2
Aaron Rowand
CF R
.332 .275 .335 .423 .148 0.0 -0.7 -1.5
Edgar Renteria
SS R .305 .269 .323 .359 .090 0.1 -0.5 -1.7
Pitcher









 

What's that? You actually want to see an optimized batting order?

 

Optimized Giants Batting Order vs. RHP
Player Pos. Bts wOBA AVG OBP SLG ISO EqHAR SBr GDPr
Aaron Rowand CF R 0.327 .275 .329 .423 .148 0.0 -0.7 -1.5
Nate Schierholtz
LF L 0.350 .300 .338 .464 .164 0.2 0.4 1.3
Ryan Garko 1B R 0.331 .270 .339 .413 .143 -1.9 0.0 0.5
Pablo Sandoval 3B S 0.359 .301 .337 .503 .202 -0.2 -0.5 0.1
Randy Winn RF S 0.327 .279 .337 .396 .117 0.6 1.6 1.2
Freddy Sanchez 2B R 0.319 .291 .329 .437 .146 1.1 -0.5 -0.1
Bengie Molina C R 0.304 .277 .294 .416 .139 -2.2 0.0 -1.8
Pitcher









Edgar Renteria SS R 0.300 0.269 0.317 0.359 0.090 0.1 0.3 -1.7

 

[Only the columns in italics are adjusted for league-average platoon splits.]

Comment: Whatever other problems one might have putting together a batting order for the Giants, having too many good left-handed hitters isn't one of them. Seriously, in some lineups, all the best hitters are lefties, so it makes it impossible to get them in the 1, 2, and 4 spots. Anyway, after adjusting for average platoon splits, the three best Giants hitters (projected) vs. RHP are Sandoval, Schierholtz, and Garko, followed by Rowand and Winn in a tie. The first inclination, given the various wOBA, OBP, ISO, and baserunning numbers, was to put Schierholtz #1, Garko #2, Sandoval #4, and then have Rowand hit #3 (he has a higher ISO than Randy Winn, and the #3 hitter sees the most 2-out PAs, so more HR power is important in that spot), and put Winn, the closest thing this lineup has to a basetealer, #5. However, If you look at Rowand's numbers, he's absolutely dreadful when it comes to grounding into the double play, and the #3 spot sees the most GDP opportunities, by far. By putting him in the #1 spot, we avoid that (particularly with OBP wizards like Molina and Renteria at the bottom of the order), and both Garko and Schierholtz have been better than average at avoiding it. That probably saves as many or more runs than any other single betting order move. The #2 and #4 hitters are to be of the same quality, and maybe Scheirholtz would have just as much power as Sandoval if we adjusted those numbers for platoon splits. Plus, Schierhotlz isn't exactly projected to be a walks machine. But I finaly decided that Sandoval is just a bit of a surer bet for power and "moving guys over," but I can see it either way. And, yes, either guy (or any number of Giants) would be an upgrade of Bengie Freaking Molina hitting cleanip.  You could also make the argument for switching Garko and Schierholtz, given how well Nate avoids the GDP. It's all pretty close. Finally , having Winn hit #5 allows his decent base stealing to be leveraged in front of the terrible hitters behind him so he can get into scoring position for the occasional Sanchez single vs. RHP.

Optimized Giants Batting Order vs. LHP
Player Pos. Bts wOBA AVG OBP SLG ISO EqHAR SBr GDPr
Aaron Rowand CF R 0.348 .275 .355 .423 .148 0.0 -0.7 -1.5
Ryan Garko 1B R 0.352 .270 .363 .413 .143 -1.9 0.0 0.5
Freddy Sanchez 2B R 0.340 .291 .353 .437 .146 1.1 -0.5 -0.1
Pablo Sandoval 3B S 0.359 .301 .337 .503 .202 -0.2 -0.5 0.1
Randy Winn RF S 0.327 .279 .337 .396 .117 0.6 1.6 1.2
Bengie Molina C R 0.324 .277 .315 .416 .139 -2.2 0.0 -1.8
Nate Schierholtz
LF L 0.323 .300 .312 .464 .164 0.2 0.4 1.3
Pitcher









Edgar Renteria SS R 0.320 .269 .340 .359 .090 0.1 0.3 -1.7

 

[Only the columns in italics are adjusted for league-average platoon splits.]

Comment: If nothing else, these guys should smash LHP. And I was also easily able to slot the guys with the three best wOBA vs. LHP in the #1, #2, and #4 slots. That is so rare and exciting that I'll leave it to you to decide whether switching Sanchez and Garko in order to better utilize Garko's better HR power (although not ISO in general, oddly), ability to avoid the DP, and Sanchez's baserunning better. Rowand again stays at leadoff, since GDP ability doesn't Platoon." And ##6-9 easily go in descending order of wOBA. I do go against The Book by having a better hitter at the #3 spot than the #5 spot, but Winn's speed is a bit wasted in front of Sandoval, and his despite Renteria and Molina being almost league average against LHP, I'm going to guess they'll still need his help to get into him into scoring position. Keep in mind that not everyone agrees with having the pitcher hit #8, but it works either way.

Final Thoughts:

I don't know if anyone reads these, or if those who do actually enjoy them, but I like putting them together (although it takes a lot longer than you would think). Remember that these are just suggestions. They are worth debating in a friendly manner, and trying out in different combinations.  I don't have a sophisticated simulator to try these out on. I know that Baseball Musings has one, but it doesn't take baserunning, platoon splits, and GDPs, etc. into account, although if you want to compare these and other lineups using such a simulator, it would be interesting to compare the results.

And if through some strange twist of fate, it somehow leads to Bengie Molina not hitting cleanup, then all this work will have been be worth it.

Update August 19, 2009, 4:11 P.M. EST: Just realized that I made a small mistake -- Sandoval (whom, I should note, looks like a surefire superstar with those sorts of numbers at age 22) is actually a switch-hitter. It doesn't really make a difference for the orders. I just changed his numbers back to "even" for platoon splits. Sorry, Giants fans, no disrespect intended, the kid is a stud.

3 recs  |  Comment 28 comments |

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That's actually not a bad lineup

Against righties or lefties. They only have 2 hitters who are decidely below average, and they play shortstop and catcher.

Thanks

by vivaelpujols on Aug 19, 2009 5:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hence the qualification at the end of the first paragraph

I just couldn’t bring myself to deal with the Mariners, Reds,or (re-doing) the Royals, even though now that they’ve sent down Alex Gordon after a Truly Significant 110 PAs.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But they brought up Farnsworth!

He hits a lot of home runs!! Oh wait, it’s the other way around.

Thanks

by vivaelpujols on Aug 19, 2009 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read these and enjoy them

Keep doin ’em. And yeah, they take a lot more time than people realize, as I did one on the Tigers before the season started.

by Zach Sanders on Aug 19, 2009 10:03 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Very entertaining stuff!

Also, the table has Molina playing center field. I would fly to San Francisco to see this…

ABRUZZIAM...uh oh

by Chris... on Aug 19, 2009 10:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great analysis -- but where's Velez?

Where would you slot Velez if you removed Winn and/or Rowand from the equation? Velez has been something of a super sub, but he’s been worked into the lineup just about every day.

by tacohead on Aug 19, 2009 11:50 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I try not to think about him

(sorry)

Lewis should be getting playing time in the OF over him, but give me a bit of time to run some numbers (I’m a sucker for people who read the boring crap I write!) and I’ll have it in a few minutes… after I fix the Sandoval thing…

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So... like I said, I won't do all the variations.. well, maybe...

Let me start by saying that, on looking at projections, I simply can’t see why, unless you buy that his 135 PA this season are the “real” Velez (which you shouldn’t), he would ever play ahead of Fred Lewis. He might be a bit better defensively the oufield, but not enough to offset the Velez’s ZiPS projected wOBA is .310. Lewis’ (as of today) is .333. Velez’s projected OBP is .310, Lewis’ is .344. Lewis is just as good on the bases, as well, both as a basestealer and in taking the extra base. Finally, Velez (despite his speed), has a worse projected GDP rate than anyone I’ve projected, even Molina.

Having said that… I’ll still give it to you, ‘cause you asked. And I’ll throw in some Lewis stuff (since i kinda like him for some reason, not sure why… Maybe Giants fans hate him or something.)

Velez in for Rowand:

Vs. RHP

Hmm… Velez is only the third-worst hitter in this lineup… I guess lead off with Freddy Sanchez (okayish OBP vs. RHP_, gets him out of DP situations), then either Garko and Schierholtz in some 2-3 order, #6then Sandoval, then Randy Winn, then Velez (Winn can still in front of Velez and the other crappy hittesr, that’s where you want your basestealers). Having Velez #6 also allows him to help out the bad hitters remaining (Molina, Renteria, pitcher).

Vs. LHP Velez is the worst hitter. It’s a similar order.. lead off Sanchez again, then follow with Winn and Garko (either way — Garko has more power for #3 spot, but is also a better hitter vs LHP than Winn and could be good #2), then Sandoval. From there, yikes, probably Bengie, Nate, Edgar, Pitcher, Eugenio.

Velez in for Winn:

Vs. RHP: Similar to the original post with Sanchez moving up… Rowand, Schierholtz, Garko, Pablo, Freddy, Eugenio, Molina, Renteria/Pitcher

Vs. LHP: Rowand, then Sanchez/Garko, Sandoval, then Molina (ugh), Schierholtz, Renteria, the pitcher/ Velez

My preferred option would be Lewis in either case, so here we go with that:

Lewis in for Rowand::

Vs. RHP: Potentially a very good offensive lineup with two lefties in there… Lead off Lewis (decent OBP vs. RHP and great baserunning), then go Garko (split up lefties), then Schierholtz (not great OBP, but some pop in the #3 hole), then Sandoval, Winn, MOlina, pitcher/Renteria

Vs. LHP: Just like Velez, when in for Rowand, Lewis should be hitting #9 vs. LHP

Lewis in for Winn:

Vs. RHP: A good lineup, potentially, Basically, just sub in Fred for Winn at #5, as he’s an even better basestealer than Winn (so better leveraged for the bad hitters). Thus: Rowand, Schierholtz, Garko, (Garko and Rowand could be switched), Sandoval, then Lewis #5 with his baserunning leveraged in front of contact hitter Sanchez and basetealing leveraged in front of Molina and Renteria (Freddy could use some help vs. RHP, too).

Vs. LHP. Lewis in the last spot. Definitely after the pitcher, though, so his speed isn’t wasted. So Rowand,Garko/Sanchez, Sandoval, Molina, Schierholtz, Renteria, Pitcher, Lewis.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

DOH -- Update -- major F-up!

For some reason, I was sure that Sandoval was a RHH, but he’s a switch-hitter. Sorry, Giants fans and everyone else… It doesn’t effect the lineups, really, though… I’ll just switch out the stats, although it will take a bit because I accidentally f-ed up my Giants file after I wrote this.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 1:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Ironically

Sandoval is a natural lefty, but learned to throw right-handed (if I remember the story right, because his hero Omar Vizquel played SS and he couldn’t do that left-handed), and is pretty much ambidextrous.

Nice article. Ironically, again, Giants fans hated that Rowand was batted leadoff for much of the season. Yet your analysis says that he should be there. I wonder where he would be in the lineup based on how well he was hitting about a month ago.

Yet another irony is that a number of Giants fans were bemoaning that Winn was batting 5th in recent days.

Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.

"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
"Let's go get them in 2009!" - The Kid
"He got his pitch; he did not miss it" - Cainer
"Kung Fu Panda don't get hurt" - Cainer

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Aug 19, 2009 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks

I expect that one big difference is that most (understandably) are just looking at how the player has done lately, not at a projection going forward. Maybe the ZiPS RoS projections I used aren’t right. But you really have to look at who you reasonably expect the player to play going forward through an estimation true talent (weighted recent performance + regression to the mean + environment) without letting random variations intervene. It doesn’t have to be ZiPS, of course, but those numbers are probablya big difference.

Another difference is the GDP numbers — I only put Rowand first because while he’s one of the 5 best hitters on the team without being in the top 3, he’s also the worst of the good hitters when it comes to grounding into the DP, and putting a guy like that in the leadoff spot is a way to save a fair number of runs over having him in a less important spot (especially #3). This isn’t something I ever really thoguht about before reading The Book, but it makes sense.

Also, most fans don’t think of having the basestealer hitting #5.

If you leave the GDP stuff aside, then I would rather see Winn #1 (baserunning, decent OBP going forward), Rowand #3 (worst hitter of the top 5), and Garko #5 or something.

There are a million variations, of course.

What people should really be going nuts about, of course, is Molina hitting cleanup. That’s just ridiculous. That’s probably cost the Giants more runs than any single lineup decision, and it was entirely avoidable.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 20, 2009 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Molina Batting Cleanup

Sadly, Molina has batted 4th every game he’s started since the post-Bonds era began. In ’07 he usually batted in the 5-7 slots.

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Wronghanded Affeldt pitches right

by Giant among Angels on Aug 20, 2009 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe this is the logic:

they knew Bonds’ shoes were impossible to fill, so they decided to go with the exact opposite.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 20, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say the Giants are going to be f-ed on defense

given that they’ll be running both Rowand AND Molina and eschewing the catcher position. From his name, I assumed Molina was a decent enough catcher to support having at the position in the lineup, but the optimizer seems to think otherwise.

All kidding aside, that isn’t a bad lineup vs. righties or lefties. Can you tell us an estimated runs above the first lineup noted?

by SFiercex4 on Aug 19, 2009 2:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

just fixing the CF position

I don’t have a simulator that would deal with all the factors I take into consideration (unless MGL wants to give it to me and tell me how to use it)… maybe I’ll mess around with the Baseball Musings on (just comparing my lineups, not their suggestions) to see how things go.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, that was a fun way to blow the late afternoon

I did mess with the Baseball Musings analyzer. Keep in mind that it works off difference assumptions, It only uses OBP and SLG (so doesn’t take into account ISO), doesn’t take into account breakingup lefties, steals, baserunning, GDPs, etc. SO their own suggestions will be peculiar. I also entered stuff with the pticher last (hitting .185/.185, which is above average this season)… THe Analyzer’s own suggestions will thus be very different. It does seem to like low-OBP, high-SLG guys in the third spot, and always put Sandoval #2, which wouldn’t be a terrible idea. I like my lineups better for the reasons above.

ALso keep in mind that the “Giants” lineup above has Scheirholtz hitting at the top instead of Velez, as they’ve been doing lately… they probably wouldn’t do that (although Schierholtz would be a better choice than Velez going foward, as would most Giants other than Molina and Renteria vs. RHP)…

I might have made some entry mistakes, but I just used my own OBP split estimates and then did some SLG estimates on the fly.

Anyhoo, with those major qualifications, here are the comparitive results and links.

Giants pseudo-lineup vs. RHP: 4.216 RPG
My lineup vs. RHP: 4.249 RPG

Difference: .033 RPG

Giants pseudo-lineup vs. LHP: 4.485 RPG
My lineup vs. LHP: 4.523 RPG

Difference: .038 RPG

Assuming that 122 games during the season are played vs. RHP, and 40 vs. LHP, the total difference is ~5.6 runs over the season. That’s about $2M on the free agent market, and again, is done on a simulator that isn’t that subtle.

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting piece d_f

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

If Dustin Pedroia played in Seattle, not many people would be talking about him.

GET THAT VORP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

by baetown415 on Aug 19, 2009 4:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Cool piece.

For some reason I thought the Giants were worse than this, but they really don’t look completely awful once Bengie moves down.

"Of course Kolby Rasmus was going deep! That’s what Kolby Rasmus does! You don’t give Kolby Rasmus second chances!" -Kolby Rasmus

by hazel on Aug 20, 2009 1:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought so, too

The Garko and Sanchez moves, whatever their own questionable merits in the big scheme of things, really improves the Giants offense. At least ZiPS thinks so… of course, almost everyone on the team (other than Sandoval and Velez and maybe Molina) are underperforming their ZiPS RoS right now, so we’ll see what happens.

They really stop with the Velez nonsense and be playing Lewis or Schierholtz every day, and against RHP, if one of them can handle RF, maybe playing one of them over Winn and maybe Rowand if Lewis can handle CF.

Renteria is terrible at this point, but the worst, again, is that the team has Bengie Molina hitting in one of the most important slots in the lineup, and right behind one of the bester hitters in the league (who is their best hitter, and should be hitting #2 or #4).

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 20, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I originally did the lineups with Fred Lewis in LF, but a commentator in another thread said Nate Schierholtz was probably going to be getting most of the starts, so I subbed him in

When the Giants run both Winn and Schierholtz out there, Winn’s in left and Nate’s in right. In fact Nate has played no other defensive position in the majors so far.

by 2X2L on Aug 21, 2009 11:52 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

d'oh

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 21, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But

it’s fair to say that Nate probably can play left without a Teahenian dropoff in his defense.

This is the team that never starts Bengie in any spot in the batting order other than cleanup, so I’m not going to claim that their deployment decisions are authoritative.

by 2X2L on Aug 21, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They should really go with Lewis and Schierholtz in the corners next season

offensively, at least, that would be much better. Lewis can do anything Winn can do on the bases, and Schierholtz is at least adequate with the bat for the corner OF>

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 21, 2009 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Although Winn's RF defense is still great

I'm not a sabermetrician, but I do play one at Driveline Mechanics.

Can't get enough of me? Check out my Twitter feed.

by Matt Klaassen on Aug 21, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, Winn's the best of the SF corner outfielders defensively

and, more interestingly, he’s a litmus test for Sabean (that is, presuming Sabean will be rewarded for a non-losing 2009 with a new contract, something that even part-time Giants fans like myself have ample reason to dread). Is he The Same Old Sabean or has he really turned over a new leaf regarding player development? His established MO is to retain his veterans well past their recommended “use by” date, cf. Dunston, Grissom, Snow, Vizquel, Aurilia. Will he do it again with Winn and Molina?

The likelihood that they will in fact go with Lewis and Schierholtz in the corners next season is small in any case, judging by their current use of Velez, all as the result of a two-week hot streak.

by 2X2L on Aug 21, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Plz

Can you do this for every team…opening day and post-trade deadline and start of playoffs…every year???

by WeNeedDavidJustice on Aug 22, 2009 12:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting theories

We had Rowand batting leadoff for a long time, but he really hit a slump. Moving him around the order seems to get him going again for some reason. Every Giants fan knows Sandoval should hit cleanup, and McCovey Chronicles hates Molina there even more than you do.

#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum

Adopted Father: Tyler Graham

by GrahamCrakalaka on Aug 22, 2009 2:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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